Property taxes (WAS: On Nh living and commutes..)

[Travis Roy]

Derek Martin wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 23, 2004 at 11:47:13AM -0700, Michael Costolo wrote:
> 
>>--- Derek Martin <invalid at pizzashack.org> wrote:
>>
>>>Or something.  Democracy is a myth.  I think it's only really
>>>democracy if most everyone participates, and makes informed decisions.
>>>And votes for what they truly believe in...  
>>
>>That is the point of voting, n'est-ce pas?
> 
> 
> Non, il n'est pas.
> 
> The point of voting is to make people _feel_ empowered.  Only in some
> cases is it actually useful, generally at the most local levels of
> government.  Even if it /were/ the point, the fact is that:
> 
> 1. the overwhelming majority don't vote.  Note that I'm not
>    complaining; I think they have good reason not to.
> 
> 2. Of those that do, a shamefully large percentage do not understand
>    the isssues they are voting for, nor the positions of the people
>    form whom they cast their ballots...

Not only that, they word some so that yes = no. I've seen that a number 
of times on the local ballots where you have to read them 2 or 3 times 
just to fully understand them because of the weird way they word the issues.

> 3. Few people these days believe in their candidates, or for that
>    matter even know who they are.  How many people who voted for Bush
>    really wanted him as a president?  Many simply thought he was
>    better than Gore.  The lesser of two evils is no way to elect a
>    leader.  People need REAL choices, before there can be democracy.
>    As for local candidates, many people have never heard of their
>    councilmember or selectman candidates until they saw their name on
>    the ballot.  And ballot issues are all some watered-down version of
>    some idea concocted to make it look like the government is really
>    trying to solve some problem, when all they end up really doing is
>    lining someone else's pockets with government contract money.

I think this is where something like local/public access TV can come 
into play, the only problem is that the quality of the channels suck 
because the cable company is forced to give them the equipment so they 
get the cheapest, crappiest stuff they can find.. And people are more 
interested in watching Friends then seeing who's running..

The basic point is people are so busy with work, kids, fixing up their 
house, getting to the bank on time, making sure the bills are paid, 
spending time with family/friends that they just don't have the energy 
to even care anymore..


> I covered this case already.  This comes under the header of, "until
> and unless they become a nuisance to the community at large."  Is that
> somehow not clear?  But being prevented from removing or even
> rebuilding my broken-down barn hardly qualifies as a public
> nuisance...  It's my damned (hypothetical) barn!

Not only that, the bard was already partly taken apart when they told 
her to stop.. It was obvious to anybody driving by that this was no 
historical landmark, it was just some barn.. It's not like it was John 
Starks house or something..

You all know if it was some selectman's property and the selectman 
wanted that house down it would have been down in a weekend at the most. 
They saw some old lady that they could try to push their will upon.

Not only that, don't forget that she still has to pay property tax on 
that barn.. even discounted due to the historical nature of the 
structure.. even during the time that she was fighting for the right to 
tear down her own barn..


> Finally, Walmart is not a citizen, it is a business.  Once I decide to
> create a hazardous waste dump on my property, I am also a business,
> even if I am only a single citizen.  Different laws should certainly
> apply to businesses than to citizens.  Their goals are very different:
> by and large citizens just want to be left alone to live in peace,
> whereas businesses want to maximize profits, often to the detriment of
> the local community, and sometimes even consumers in general.

Not only that, even if I was dumping my own oil in my own back yard that 
is going to effect the people around me.. cleaning my windows and 
painting my house and adding an addition that is within my property 
isn't going to do any of those things.. except perhaps during the time 
of construction. They are also not going to effect traffic patterns like 
putting up a commercial building would.

> What is always bad is whenever it does happen, the private land owner
> gets screwed.  When such a zoning goes into effect, the owner loses
> rights to their own property, to a large extent, and it becomes more
> difficult to sell for the same reasons, and they receive no
> compensation for all this.  I'd love to see you try to explain how
> that's not unfair.

Like the 3rd generation farmer who gets his land rezoned because some 
yuppies from the city moved out around his land and don't like the smell 
of the fertilizer. So they plunk down some bucks for a campaign and 
drive the farmer out of business.

> Precisely why it should take more than a handful of empassioned
> lunatics [not that all who vote on zoning issues are empassioned
> lunatics] at a town meeting to vote in favor of something like
> this...  Like, maybe you shouldn't be allowed to vote on a re-zoning
> of a district, unless you live in that district, or at a property
> which is immediately adjacent to it.  Or, if you feel the whole
> community should have a say, then it should take a majority of the
> /citizens/ to pass such a measure... not just a majority of the 15
> people who show up at the town meeting.
> 

Don't forget the way town meetings are run. When I worked at public 
access station in Goffstown I used to tape them.. Now, I was under 18 at 
the time and was not allowed to speak my mind, but they were voting in 
this new automated trash pickup truck.. They did a yea/nea vote.. now we 
had 4 mics all over the place so people could talk. Based on the VU 
meter there was NO way it passed, not even close.. The guy running the 
meeting said it DID pass. About 20-30 people stood up and countless 
others demanded a write in vote.. The guy just said it was passed, 
banged his gavel and moved on.. Some of the community groups tried and 
tried to get it turned over with no luck..