Debian flamewar (was: OpenOffice doc...)

[Derek Martin]

On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 10:42:15PM -0500, Benjamin Scott wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Feb 2005, at 4:27pm, colet at code-energy.com wrote:
> > Debian's equivalent of "rpm" is "dpkg".  Apt is sort of like up2date on
> > a large quantity of steroids.  8)
> 
>   I've never, ever been that impressed by the functionality of apt-get vs
> anything else.  Yes, it manages package dependencies.  So do/did yum,
> up2date, rpmfind, and autorpm.  I've been having my RPM dependencies solved
> for me for years and years.  It just really ain't all that impressive.  Get
> over yourselves.
> 
>   The size of Debian's main package repository (the "distribution", really)
> is really what most Debian zealots like when they say they like apt-get.  

I couldn't agree more.  

>   Unfortunately, it appears to me that Debian people, apparently as a
> universal rule, have no concept of software configuration management at all.  

Here again, I couldn't agree more.  

And I also get a little incensed when I hear people tlalking about how
superior Debian software is than Red Hat (or choose your favorite
other distro to beat on).  I've managed both of these, and others,
both on my own personal systems and in corporate environments, big and
small.  By and large, the software is the very same software.  Despite
Debian's long testing cycles, they still ship with loads of strange
bugs, and I seem to be good at finding them all.  ;-)  Red Hat isn't
better; they're just different.  

Frankly, I'm not even all that impressed with apt's dependency
resolution skills...  I've come across several situations where it was
impossible to install a package I wanted, because its dependencies
had been removed from or otherwise didn't exist in the repository.
I've also come across situations where doing a dist-upgrade completely
broke my system.  Red hat isn't better here either, and admittedly
probably worse.  But then, regardless of OS, I'd much rather do a
fresh install than an upgrade any day.  It's kind of like moving; it's
a PITA, but it gives you a great opportunity to do house cleaning. ;-)
One reason I always shied away from Debian is because it was hard to
download CD images... you had to build them yourself.  While I've
heard that they provide all the tools to "make it easy" to build the
CDs, I have to confess that I spent long enough wandering around the
maze of their documentation that I just gave up.  Regardless, it's an
extra step that frankly, I want my distro to do for me.

I've also seen Debian packages configure things in strange ways that
(IMO) no self-respecting system administrator would ever imagine...  
In that regard, I do actually think Red Hat is better, but that may
just be a matter of personal preference.

>   Another really impressive but usually overlooked feature of Debian is the
> general attitude that Free Software and community development are the way to
> go.  Things like the Debian Social Contract and the Debian Free Software
> Guidelines.  No other major distribution has anything like that.  Debian
> takes the Free Software mindset (the "bazaar" if you're an ESR fan) and
> applies it to the entire distribution.  That's cool.

Agreed too.

>   I also like Debian's emphasis on accountability.  Each package has an
> official maintainer, who is ultimately responsible for that package.  
> You're not dealing with a faceless corporate entity.  Got a problem, contact
> the maintainer.  Maintainers need credentials (signed keys or a photo ID),
> and have an existing maintainer vouch for them.  Nice.

Red Hat has something similar in their development team, but the
difference is that the assigned maintainer is YAUPOWE (Yet Another
Under-Paid Over-Worked Employee).  But I'm not sure if there's any
practical difference here.  A lot of times the RH guys push stuff off
on the official maintainers, who often are the Debian maintainers too.

The bottom line is the better distribution is the one you find easiest
to work with for whatever purpose you have in mind...  Inherently,
they're all about the same.  -8^)  [<-- I'm going bald...]

-- 
Derek D. Martin    http://www.pizzashack.org/   GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02
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