postfix

Ben Scott dragonhawk at gmail.com
Wed Aug 29 15:52:54 EDT 2007


On 8/29/07, Paul Lussier <p.lussier at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> If Exchange does this, it's because someone thought to build an AD
>>> query into the interface that does so.
>>
>>   There's no default "all users" DL (Distribution List) in any part of
>> AD, Exchange, or Outlook.  Kind of surprising, really.  Microsoft
>> likes that kind of thing.
>
> I didn't say Exchange *did* do this, I said *if* it did...

  And I didn't say you said it did.  :-)  I was stating, FYI, that it
does not do that.

>>   One can mail-enable the "Domain Users" group or similar.
>
> Is this not essentially the same as an 'all users' group?

  Oh, doze has *lots* of those groups.  There's "Domain Users",
"Authenticated Users", "Users", and "Everyone" groups, each with
slightly different semantics!

  But none of them are "mail-enabled" by default, meaning they just
exist for security purposes, like nix /etc/groups groups do.  If
you're running Exchange, you can "mail-enable" a group, which creates
an Exchange Distribution List based on the group, so you can send mail
to the group.

> Perhaps it's one of those things not on by default, but everyone "just does it" ?

  It's pretty common to have some sort of "All users" DL in most small
orgs, and department or workgroup DLs in larger orgs.  Heck, where I
work, we've got a DL for the whole company, plus each
department/focus-factory, plus one for each building.

>>   I used to work at UNH.
>
> 'Nuff said ;)

  It was educational.  And I don't mean the classes I was taking.  I
learned a lot about heterogeneous systems there....

>>> Exchange lovers say much the same thing :)
>>
>>   No competent Exchange admin
>
> I didn't say *admin*! ;)

  Hah!  Point.  :)

> My point was that "people" perceive that Exchange is all one
> product, and that it "just works".  Where as a Linux solution
> is not all one product.  Moreover, the Linux solution consists
> of several different products all maintained by completely
> separate and distinct entities for which there no "support".

  Well, I don't agree with either part.

  Most people I deal with don't even know what Exchange is.  They
think email is delivered to Outlook on their computer direct from the
Interweb.  I work hard to make sure they don't have to know.

  As far as Linux and it's lack of support, I assume you're being
facetious or playing "Moron's advocate" or something.  Aside from the
non-traditional support channels (like this list!), if you go to Red
Hat or SuSE or Canonical, they will happily sell you a single
"product" that does all-that-and-more, with whatever support you want
(and can afford).

> My impression is that when a small shop hears
> Linux, they think support nightmare, when they hear Exchange, they
> think "neat unified, one-stop-shopping solution all in one box".

  Most people hear "Blah blah blah email blah blah calendar blah blah
server blah blah blah".  And I'm dead serious.  Most of them don't
know and don't care.  They don't know the difference between MAPI and
IMAP or Exchange and Cyrus.  They *will* know if they have a solution
which doesn't work well, but there are plenty of those everywhere.

  This may also be a terminology thing.  My definition of "small shop"
and yours may be different.  When I hear "small shop", I think "< 20
people".  Dell thinks "< 200 people".  C.A. thinks "Less than < 1000
people".

>>>  Basically, once the SMTP service receives the mail into Exchange
>>>  all bets are off!
>>
>> I regard myself as a competent (albeit reluctant) Exchange admin, so
>> I'll have to disagree.
>
> I'll take your word for it.  I'm not (and hopefully never will be) an
> Exchange admin.  My impressions are based on age-old "common"
> knowledge.

  Keep in mind that I've found a great many Exchange admins -- hell, a
great many IT admins of any sort -- to be incompetent, or at least
severely lacking in essential knowledge/training/experience.  So it
wouldn't surprise me in the least if most Exchange systems were
absolute disasters.

-- Ben


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